Ako Sasaki interviews Mr. Susumu Yoshikawa, the producer of the original sentai series on which The Mighty Morphin Power Rangers was originally based. He created the sentai series and was in charge of the shows from Goranger (1975) to Goggle-V (1982), the early sentai series which defined the form of the genre to this day. The interview took place at the Toei Company in Tokyo, one of Japan's major movie studios, in May 1995. (Note: because of many older TV shows and and matters which may be uunfamiliar to Western readers were discussed, Ake has added some explanatory notes in brackets wherever needed.) The Japanese sentai shows turned into the Power Rangers: AFX: Mr. Yoshikawa, I am really curious to know how this typical Japanese show turned into the most popular childrens' TV show in the world right now, the Power Rangers. How did it happen? SY: It goes back more than 10 years. In 1981, Toei International in LA tried to produce the American version of Taiyo Sentai Sun Vulcan (Solar Task Force SunVulcan, the 5th sentai series), because it it was thought that the series seemed quite popular in the US. (Some of the sentai series were shown on local UHF channels in the US, and at the same time, there was a certain popularity among fandom, which might have contributed to this idea.) There was even a suggestion that I might go to the States and supervise the whole project. But the whole idea unfortunately faded away because they couldn't sell the show to the US TV stations. In 1987, Mr. Haim Saban of Saban Entertainment approached us, saying he wanted to produce a US version of Chojinki Metalder (Ultra Humanoid Machine Metaldar, Toei's action-packed kids robot TV show. later turned into the US version known as VR Troopers). But despite this effort, later the project faded away again. In 1992, Mr. Saban approached us again, saying that he wanted to produce the US version of Kyoryu Sentai Zyuranger (Dinosaur Task Force Zyuranger). We thought that it was good thing if it happened, but on the other hand, we thought it might be just another failed attempt, because it was the third time for us. But more than ten years worth of effort was finally rewarded. As a matter of fact, it was a team effort by our vice president Yoshinori Watanabe (who is the real driving force behind the Toei kiddie shows, a powerhouse of energy), Toei International and Mr. Saban; and I am certain it was really thanks to Mr. Saban's passion for our show and his willpower. I guess he was pitching around from station to station in the US by himself, and I can imagine he might have spent an awful lot of money on his efforts. I really admire his enthusiasm. As you know, in the end the show was on the air from September 1993 on Fox TV, a network of 135 stations. This was the birth of the Mighty Morphin Power Rangers, and now the show is being broadcast in more than 30 countries all over the world. To be honest, none of us would have even dreamed of this scale of success. Even Mr. Saban didn't, initially. AFX: Why do you think the show was not sold iinitially? SY: The main obstacle was the actors. The idea that all the characters are played by Japanese can alienate the American audience, which is really understandable. So when Saban made the US version, they replaced the Japanese with American actors. AFX: Whose idea was that? SY: Mr. Saban's idea. The casting of power Rangers reflected the multi-racial society in the US, which was good. The further Toei/Saban live action series: AFX: Do you have any further plans for co-productions with Saban? SY: As you know, VR Troopers has already aired from September 1994 in syndication in the US. (As most of you should know by now, this show is edited from Toei's Chojinki Metalder and Jiku Senshi Spielvan, or Warrior in Time and Space Spielvan). And from this autumn, September 1995, there'll be a new series, the Masked Rider, based on our show Kamen Rider Black RX. (This was the tenth series of Japan's most famous kiddie action show ever, Kamen Rider. The Black RX series originally aired in 1988 in Japan.) We went to America last February to discuss what kind of show it will be, and we took Shotaro Ishinomori (a famous Japanese sci-fi manga artist. who created the original character and concept of the Kamen Rider shows) with us to the meeting with the Saban team so that we could consult him and get his input. We also talked over how Toei could offer help in terms of actual production, and how Bandai, the major Japanese toy company which works closely with Toei on projects including the sentai shows, could be involved this time. And of course, the Power Rangers feature film opens on June 30th in the US. It's going to be a 6 billion yen mega budget movie. Initially, the budget was around 2-3 billion yen, but the people in Hollywood said that if the movie was guaranteed to be a hit, more money would be invested. First it increased to 4 billion, and now 6 billion. However, we haven't decided yet whether we are going to release this feature in Japan or not. That's because there are some cultural differences, and because Japanese children might not always have the same tastes. (Note: the Power Rangers TV series itslef has not been shown in Japan, so even the name of the show is completely unknown amongst Japanese kids.) So we'll see the preview of this feature and then we'll decide. And the same goes for other Asian countries, since Toei has the distribution rights in Japan and other Asian countries. Mr. Yoshikawa's background: SY: As you know, 19 sentai series have been made since 1975, so I've been involved in this show for 21 years. But my first production in this field was actually Kikaider (another Ishinomori robot action show) 24 years ago. Since then, I've been doing this kind of job (laughing). Toei has a long history even before Kikaider in this field, like Captain Ultra (a Japanese TV space opera, something like Captain Future), Akakage (Red Shadow- the english title is Ninjascope: The Magic World of Ninjas, an action-packed, hilarious, hi-tech ninja show), Ge Ge Ge No Kitaro (a monster show based on Japanese folklore), and needless to say, Kamen Rider as well. That was supervised by my immediate boss Mr. Watanabe (currently Toei's vice president) and Mr. Hirayama (one of the most prominent Toei producers, the driving force behind the studio's early "men-in-monster-suits" action shows). At that time I was doing adult TV action dramas, including more conventional samurai dramas, modern action dramas like The Bodyguard starring Sonny Chiba (Quentin Tarantino's favorite kung-fu star- you can see him in True Romance!) But you see, when it comes to Japanese TV shows, the show's sponsors (major advertisers) have a huge power over the content. For instance, they can say, "Oh Sonny Chiba should not smack these politicians", or, "Oh you cannot blow up our manufacturer's cars in the story", and that sort of thing. Adult hero series on TV are so restricted, more so than you think. So I was frustrated. At this point, my boss, Mr. Watanabe, asked me to produce a children's show, so I took the assignment. Interestingly, you can do much purer action adventures in a kids show, more interesting and much faster-paced action-adventure. You definitely have more freedom and you can do it very boldly. In a children's show, evil is evil, and justice is justice, just that; so you can concentrate on the detailed entertaining ideas. In that sense, I think I am working in the mainstream tradition of Toei action adventure, which is inherited from the good old days of the company's samurai entertainment features. The working relationship with Saban: AFX: How do you work with Saban Entertainment? SY: Basically, Toei as the original work's copyright, and has the right to consult on the actual plans and production of the Saban Entertainment version, because we have our own policy concerning the content. So you cannot mess up the content or just take liberties- in other words, the US versions are being made in the spirit of not invading the original work's essence. As for VR Troopers, reportedly they even mimicked (or, you might say, respected) the original order of shots, exactly the same way in some scenes. When it comes to the Power Rangers, we shot some of the additional fighting footage and FX footage for them here in Japan. Also, we provide them the monster suits. The Toei team is really good at that, so our crew make them, and sometimes supervise how they do it. In any way we can, we back them up 100% to make their show work. What kind of man is Haim Saban? SY: Well, for me, to make a piece of work, whatever it is, you need to be crazy. That's the reason why I like Saban. I'm doing things in a crazy way here in Japan, and Saban is also Mr. Crazy in America. I think it might be that he's Jewish; his enthusiasm and vitality are just beyond imagination. He's been trying to make this thing happen for ten years, you see? I really admire his energy. He also watches these kinds of TV programs with with much more attention than I do. He sometimes explains to me that this thing happened and that thing happened in such and such an episode, which I don't remember exactly. As far as I understand it, he used to be a music producer in Paris, and he won two gold discs there. He had a huge hit with Mazinger-Z records (featuring music from Toei's robot TV animation) and then he used that money to to move on to Hollywood. I truly recommend you to cover him as well. He's really quite a guy. Definitely not one of those run-of-the-mill people! How is Bandai involved in the project? AFX: How do you design characters in the show? Are you heavily concerned about merchandising toys from the early stages of each project? SY: In the early days, like when we did Goranger, for instance, Mr. Ishinomori and Toei discussed it together and decided which designs were the final ones. Popy, the toy coompany which used to be a subsidiary of of Bandai and specialized in merchandising toys, became one of our show's sponsors, roughly just before Kamen Rider started (1971). Then gradually our working relationship grew. (Initially, Popy was only one of the show's advertisers, then gradually, they started suggesting some alterations in the design of characters and gadgets in the show.) Popy was acquired by Bandai as its most profitable main section, and in recent years, they started initiating their own ideas, saying things like "We are thinking of launching such and such a type of robot, couldn't you put that into the show?" In this way, after more than twenty years of experience, Bandai and Toei have built up a strong business partnership, so now their role in the show is quite vital to its success. Spider-Man Japanese style: SY: Once we bought the license from Marvel Comics and made the Spiderman for Japanese TV. (This happened after the ratings for the second sentai series Jacker Dengeki-Tai didn't go that well.) We were thinking about how to make the show and so on and so forth. Then my boss Watanabe suddenly came to us and said "Put a Transformer robot in the Spiderman." We were baffled. I said "You mean put a big robot in the Spiderman show?" and he said "That's right." I felt it was a strange combination, but come to think of it, the character has to have a punch, you know, and you have to think about the possibilities of merchandising. So we made up a new background for Spiderman in order to have this big robot in the story. Later, Stan Lee, the creator of Spider-Man, commented to us, "This is different, but it's quite interesting in its own way." And he mentioned that when he previewed our version to his staff, they were very impressed with the idea. Of course he suggested his own different opinions to us, but at the same time, he appreciated a lot of the good things in our show. I always think that the name of the game is, in the end, how can you make a hit show? So, as Stan Lee allowed us to make our own version, we cooperate with Saban to make their show successful in America. I know there are some nitpickers around. But again, I firmly believe that the show must be made in such a way that the majority will appreciate it; and yet I never intended to compromise the dignity and the spirit of the show by doing that. It is intolerable for me to make a piece in a very easy-going manner. Toei is heading overseas: AFX: Do you have any particular tactics concerning the future expansion of business overseas? SY: As I mentioned, we now have three TV shows in partnership with Saban, and the Fox Power Rangers feature is coming in the summer. Our relationships with our foreign counterparts are really important to us and we value them highly. Also, in the future we would like to make features which we can export to foreign countries directly, with Toei as the key production group. We have already produced more than twenty features in recent years starring American actors like Brooke Shields. The live action version of Fist of the North Star is one of them. But our dream for the future is to make features using Power Rangers or VR Troopers type sci-fi characters alone, and if possible, to show them widely in the US. The thing is that when you use these characters alone, you don't have to worry about the actors anymore. Hakaider, which we released in Japan recently (a cool mecha-villain feature, a spin-off from Ishinomori's robot show Kikaider) is the first attempt at that direction. While continuing to develop relationships with foreign counterparts, we would like to work towards that goal in the near future. I think we know now where the goldmine is, but we still have find the way to get to it.